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In this episode, I sit down with the incredible Alyssa Olenick, a passionate exercise physiologist, researcher, and coach. We dive deep into Alyssa’s journey as both a scientist and an athlete, and how she uses her expertise to cut through the noise of fitness misinformation online. We talk about how important it is to bridge research with real-life coaching and why nuanced, evidence-based conversations around fitness and health are essential—especially for women.
This episode is a must-listen if you're interested in staying athletic and healthy throughout life's different seasons, from pregnancy and postpartum to perimenopause and menopause.
Connect with Alyssa on IG: @doclyssfitness
Website: https://doclyssfitness.com/
Want to Learn More?
Join me at the Live Pregnancy & Postpartum Athleticism Event this March 29-30 in Gilbert, AZ
Become a Certified Coach: Check out the online Pregnancy & Postpartum Athleticism Certification here
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Brianna Battles 00:01
Welcome to the Practice Brave Podcast. I'm the host Brianna Battles, founder of Pregnancy and Postpartum Athleticism, and CEO of Everyday Battles. I'm a career strength and conditioning coach, entrepreneur, mom of two wild little boys and a lifelong athlete. I believe that athleticism does not end when motherhood begins, and this podcast is dedicated to coaching you by providing meaningful conversations, insights and interview topics related to fitness, mindset, parenting and of course, all the nuances of pregnancy and postpartum, from expert interviews to engaging conversations and reflections. This podcast is your trustworthy, relatable resource for learning how to practice brave through every season in your life. Everyone. Welcome back to the practice brave Podcast. Today I am here with Alyssa olenik, and I'm really excited to talk to her about what she is doing in the world of exercise physiology, especially for women, and she just has a great overall, I feel like approach to giving practical exercise advice in a world on social media that is filled with a lot of extremes, I love that you really dive into the nuances with a really practical and direct approach. We have very complimentary worlds. So, Alyssa, thanks so much for being
Alyssa Olenick 01:23
here today. Thank you for having me on. I'm glad we finally got to sit down and make this work. You know,
Brianna Battles 01:27
absolutely. So give us a little bit of your background, maybe from an educational perspective and then also from an athletic perspective. Yeah.
Alyssa Olenick 01:35
So I can kind of give the two for one spiel, because I feel like there is no science me without athlete me, and there is no athlete me without signs me I, you know, as the tale goes, I started, I grew up very active, and I started playing lacrosse when I was in junior high, like early middle school, and I started to run on my own. And because in my head, I thought, well, the fitter I am, the better athlete I will be. And what I ended up indirectly doing was really falling in love with fitness, so I started running, and the hometowns of my back road, as I say it, I started lifting. A few years later in high school, I was all about, like, getting better for sport. But then I, you know, concurrently, I really fell in love with fitness. And I just remember feeling like I caught magic in a bottle, and just thinking, like, I want to learn about as much of this as I possibly can and just share that with like everyone. I just kind of wanted to tell everyone what I had discovered the magic of just, you know, that runner high and being fit and active. And I just, I wanted to just, you know, I had such an unquenchable thirst of knowledge for that information. So I went to college as an athlete. And essentially, what it ended up happening is I had the highest GPA and the lowest playing time. Is always the joke that I like to state, but I found out that I really like science, and I was actually pretty good at school. I didn't really know about going in college, and I knew I wanted to go to grad school, and I kind of found out that you could go to school to become a doctor of exercise, and that was something I didn't even know was possible for me. I wanted to be like a Nike Elite Trainer, or I wanted to be an athlete, and I was never a bad athlete, but I wasn't going to be like an elite athlete for my career. Like that would have been the dream at the time, but I thought, you know, if I can't do that, what can I do? And I wanted to learn as much as I could, and kind of share that with others, was always my ethos and mission. So now I quit my college with lacrosse team, and that's when I started to really dive a lot more into like CrossFit and weight training and running on my own, and like obstacle course races and all of these different modes of just discovering that and figuring it out, taught some group fitness, did some exercise rehab stuff as a like an intern on the side, and then I went to graduate school to get my Master's and PhD in exercise physiology. And that's where I kind of fell into the world of women's research. By accident. I was kind of actually ignorant to the fact that there was such glaring gaps in our field. I just, you know, my master's committee and thesis advisors were women, and they were both pregnant and having babies while they were mentoring me, and they were doing all these women's led pregnancy research studies, or women led studies. So I did women led studies, and I just didn't even know that that was such a glaring gap, because I just, I had female mentors, and they were doing female stuff. So I just thought, Okay, this is just a whole area niche, and it is. But it was then in my master's where I started to, like, kind of experiment more with, like, what is now a hybrid fitness trend. I power lifted and did some strong man stuff for a few years, drank the Kool Aid that cardio culture gains, lost a lot of fitness as a past feels board athlete, and hated the way that I felt. I liked feeling like athletic and multi planal and doing a lot of different things. And I got really into the outdoors. And it was on one of my first hiking trips where I said, Oh, my God, I need my fitness back to be able to do this. It was really humbling. And so, you know, I'm, you know, studying, researching, learning a lot about exercise and health and experimenting that with my own on the side there. And in my master's, I started my business and coaching little bit, not fully, just kind of dabbling a little bit, start sharing a little bit of like my power lifting, and then my hybrid early years training in the online space. And so I brought kind of all that with me to my PhD. I brought the women's research, the metabolism research, kind of my lab didn't have a lot of funding, so I got to have a lot of autonomy and creativity with that. And so I started my PhD like wanting to. Continue to do work in women and in metabolism and in, you know, I'm getting a PhD in exercise science, which is like my dream. I want to learn as much about exercise as I possibly can. And at this point in time, I'm deciding to start my business, and I'm training for my first ultra marathon and starting my PhD at the same time as one does concurrently all those things. And so I kind of just started really diving into the world of trail and ultra marathons during my PhD, I kept doing research and work in that. I continued lifting, started coaching, grew my business, all of those things, you know, I then, when I finished my PhD, I did a postdoc for a little bit, and I've continued since then, you know, throughout my PhD, postdoc, and now kind of bridging that gap of, you know, practical application, the exercise science that I learned in, know, and then, you know, sharing what I'm doing in real time with others to kind of help them, you know, do the thing that I wanted to do since I was 13, learn as much as I can and share that with others. And I'm really passionate about, like, Yeah, I do cool things and learn cool things and been involved in science. But like, how do I use my experience and my stories and my education to just, like, truly help people live, like, better, well rounded, healthier, more athletic lives, or just realize, like they have so much more potential than they realize that they they do. So it's kind of that intersection of, there is no athlete me that isn't also scientist me that also isn't business owner me. They all kind of overlap because they are just like, I'm obsessed with what I do and the work that I do, and movement and fitness, and so it was just kind of an easy trajectory to be on when you really, really care a lot about a subject.
Brianna Battles 06:24
Yeah, I mean, it's like, I tell people this all the time, it embodies what you do anyway and what you enjoy anyway. Then your business isn't. It doesn't necessarily have to be like, this huge challenge. Like, there's so many opportunities to mesh our worlds and our interests there. But I think what is been really cool to see with you is that you appear, anyway, to be one of the few in the research communities that are also having that practical application in coaching and creating content and sharing and sharing it in digestible ways. Because I do think a lot of like clinical and a lot of theory and a lot of research doesn't make it down into the trenches of actually coaching people or of the athlete experience in a really holistic way. A lot of the variables that we experience, I'm sure, you know, from doing research in anything women's health, it's never just about, you know, certain measures, like people in pregnancy or postpartum, they're like, is it safe? And it's like, well, yes. And there's a shit ton of nuance that goes with that question, or like a return to play sort of thing. It's not just this straightforward process. There's so many variables involved. But what I like about the work that you're doing, especially within anything women's health, is that in using your business, you're able to talk about some of the more complex research that we have, but then put it into terms that people can understand, whether they work within the fitness industry or they are just a consumer, so to speak, of exercise.
Alyssa Olenick 07:56
Yeah, well, I appreciate that, because I, you know, I didn't, I didn't choose this niche before it was, like, this super trendy hot topic, which is so funny, because I was like, oh, let's like, do this in my when I was thinking of dissertation projects. And then it became, like such a hot topic trend, like I was doing hybrid training and female fist stuff before it like, blew up on the map. I just got, guess I got lucky in that, but it's, you know, there's just so much really predatory information. And I know you know that as well, and it's just very unfortunate when you know there is this balance of people who are far more accomplished deep in the science researchers than I am. I'm lucky that I still get to slightly straddle the field a little bit. I definitely think I'm probably more leaning industry at this point in time, just because of the work that I do. But, you know, I sometimes get this feeling like I'm a failed scientist, but it's so many people, it's just like, it's so needed that communication and that bridging the gap, and actually like being able to read and explain and teach people what they need to know or highlight what's important. I think that that's becoming more and more necessary and needed, especially as everyone decides they're an expert online and is going to share whatever information they want, and the true experts are usually not ivory towers. And you know, I think we need more people who are trained in fields, like me to to make the content and create the content, because people aren't going to stop posting the crappy stuff. But we need more people posting the stuff that's actually like helping people understand. Okay, well, here's all this information, but what do you actually do with it? Right?
Brianna Battles 09:19
Because then it helps. It gives that trust and that credibility to the voices and people that actually have it, because a lot of the people that maybe know a lot aren't always able to teach it or share it, especially in a way that is digestible and immediately applicable. So having that background as an athlete and embodying your work not just not just yapping about it online and hearing or presenting on it or publishing something, but saying, like, No, we are actually in the trenches of doing this. And in my world with, you know, working with pregnant post from athletes, I'm like, guess what? We don't have a lot of research on that, especially this population, especially when we're taking into consideration all these different variables. But people want to just look at, like, really limited studies and things like that. Compared to those of us that are actually working every single day with this population, and then being able to bridge the gap so that we can go from research down to applied science, but also from the Applied Science and experimentation to then create research. And it's just an interesting world to be in. I think I'm a little bit older than you, but like to be growing up in this, this era where we have the ability to share a lot online. And, you know, this wasn't necessarily a straightforward path for me to entrepreneurship like that wasn't shown in exercise physiology or Kinesiology. Of like, yeah, you can be a business owner that was never on the table. I think it's great that you found that early. I felt I kind of fell into it that just wasn't an opportunity. And I still feel like it's not really an opportunity that's given or comes highly suggested for those of us working at exercise fizz or any kind of complimentary field. Yeah,
Alyssa Olenick 10:54
no. I mean, I completely agree, and I kind of fell into it in some ways. I mean, I started my business as a way to, like, make money when I wasn't getting paid in the summer in grad school, right? But then it me being who I am. I kept pushing and going, and I, luckily was an early enough adapter to it for a lot of people, but no one showed me that this was an option or this was a thing. And now it's exciting, because I think for me, and not just me, there's other people out there too. I don't want to act like I'm, like, the industry's exercise physiologist, but I'm one of, actually, probably one of the very few women, though, actually in my field, that are doing that. But it's, it's exciting to see young students who are either going back to school to get masters and PhDs, who follow me, or see the work that I do, or I gave a talk recently, got invited to a university to give a talk about, like I caught it Strad in the line, and having a being in, you know, academia and science and the industry at the same time, because they wanted me to show students like, this is a whole other potential Avenue. And like, you know, you're not going to learn how to do these things in grad school. No one taught me how to run a business. But, you know, being a scientist, you learn a lot of really valuable skills that I've been able to apply in these ways. You're smart and you're, you're, you're problem solved, focused and all that stuff. But all that to say, No, I completely agree with you and that it just we need more of that highlighting and like, this is a really important area of where, because this, people aren't finding their information from blogs, even anymore. They're finding them from reels and tiktoks and things like that. So we need to, like, you know, have more of those people giving that information out there. And, yeah, I hope, if you know, if you're a young student or scientist, looking at this like, entrepreneurship is not easy, um, you just don't post online and have a business, but there is merit in sharing your work and your science along the way. Yeah, absolutely. And I want
Brianna Battles 12:36
to talk about something you mentioned that we talked a little bit before, but you're saying that there's not a lot of women within exercise physiology, and I think, as like you were saying with Tiktok and different reels and Instagram, we are seeing like more women that are in coaching or maybe fantasy influence or positions. Some share great things. The rest can often be like a dumpster fire. But I think it's people don't realize how far we have come within the last decade to maybe the last 15 years, of getting more women involved in exercise physiology, in research, in strength and conditioning. I tell people all the time like there were very, very few female strength conditioning coaches when I first graduated. This is still relatively new to see women in these positions, or taking interest in exercise, biz, in strength and conditioning, nevertheless, actually getting great information that is more specific to women and more specific to female athletes. This is all still new, that you and I are even in these fields. There's not that many people, not that many women anyway, that are
Alyssa Olenick 13:40
no I think we're definitely starting to increase our numbers when you think of like, the this, these younger generations, but there's still these disparities that we see. I mean, a lot of it is my group. We do these studies called Invisible sports women studies, where we looked at either the research gaps on women in studies, but then we kind of extended into like, Okay, well, what are the, you know, quality and publication gaps? And then we were kind of finding that that will a lot of the people doing the higher quality work were women, and then, like, well, we have this leaky pipeline of women are who are leaving sport science, you know, over time, and so we're trying to get that paper out right now, published, I think it's under review. And basically, like, Okay, well, people that are doing this work, and they're doing the higher quality work are leaving academia because of child care or their their spouses, career, or just things this, you know, classic things that people struggle with any field that is male dominated, you know, how do we keep them in? Or why are they leaving if they're the ones doing that work that's important, because that could be contributing to why we're maybe not having some of that work. And I was really fortunate, one of my postdoc mentors was like an OG woman, woman in this field, and she's so inspiringly good of a scientist, and toughest nails, and her group and research group has a lot of females in it. But, you know, historically, that's not, that's not the norm in our field, especially I think, in the online space, where it is weird, because it is a flip where influencers are the commodity of women's like money making and business growth. And I think. That's phenomenal. Unfortunately, that comes with a lot of poor information, but we are running the online space, and I think we actually are really rolling in female fitness coaching. I think that's huge, which I think is amazing. And I think it's also given a lot of women the chance to just make a career on their terms. Like, I don't think that I'd have the opportunities afforded to me that I'm getting if I didn't put myself out there, right? Like, that's how I got that, and I think we're seeing a lot of females who have, you know, even Bachelor's and Master's or strength and conditioning, you know, degrees are more formally trained, create their own path and space in the online way that they they're creating, like, you know, that balance between careers and lives in a way that allows them to do valuable, meaningful work will also, like, maybe not having as many of those issues that you have along the way that has them leaving either strength conditioning or, you know, traditional academic jobs over time. Yeah,
Brianna Battles 15:45
I left, like, Division One collegiate athletics 11 years ago. And again, there wasn't like, oh, well, you could, like, start this side business and share online and build this whole online thing that wasn't really an option. It just sort of slowly, gradually built, and it's the same, same systems in place where there wasn't a lot of support after I had my first son, and it was trying to figure out, how can I pursue being a mom in the way that I want it to be on my own terms, but also, like, still stay involved in coaching in areas that I'm really interested in, So that that part of me doesn't die either. And I know I think we've been seeing people where maybe now it's a little bit more of an available opportunity, but prior, it was a lot of falling into it ass backwards and then trying to slowly scale it over time, but guessing there wasn't like people to learn from, or resources on how to do this, how to build a business. Yeah.
Alyssa Olenick 16:40
I mean, I started my stuff, and I technically started my business in 2017 2018 and I feel like I kind of just fell into a lot of things. There's definitely a lot more research out there. Now, I know people ask me a lot of if I had a business mentor or a business coach. And I was like, No, I just figured stuff out by throwing stuff at the wall and failing and taking chances and putting myself out there, and, you know, trying to strike before, like, you know, not being the last person to something, being there, you know, as soon as I see something's trending or acting like being on it, but, you know, there, yeah, there was no path for that, which is awesome now, because there is such a great path. But then, you know, everyone's like, well, it's saturated then. And I was like, well, it's not saturated if you can stand out and do important work that, like I know, that you guys have always done, and I think that's what I've got fortunate with as well as I'm doing something that a lot of people aren't doing well within that. So, yeah, it is amazing what it's been able to create. And then I think on the flip side, too, I always think about too, just in the space of so many of my peers are still are more so 100% or 90% in research and science, and they don't get as many opportunities. Or that that voice out there is, like, maybe I do, or others do from being out there, and just like, you know, recognizing that, like, there's a lot of like, silent workers, a lot of women, doing a lot of important work, like behind the scenes, that allows us to kind of relay that out to the people in the public and hold the integrity of their science and get it out there. So it's like, you definitely need both within that. But, yeah, it's amazing. Now, what other paths and careers are available just because you can kind of make, you can make it up yourself, what you want it to be, which is, comes a lot of risk and reward up front. But if you can figure it out, it's, it's kind of awesome.
Brianna Battles 18:18
Yeah. I mean, I like to share this, because I think there's just so many people that don't, almost, like know, that know the history of, like, where it started, and what this what a short history it honestly is for any woman working within the coaching exercise Fizz, women's health realm, all of this is still relatively new. We've done a lot of awesome work, but as you've said, there's still gaps in research. So let's, like, pivot a little bit to talk about that. Like, what do you see in the research that you've done, or maybe some trends that you're even seeing? Like, talk to us about the lack of research and situations that you're seeing here with for women, yeah,
Alyssa Olenick 18:55
so for the context of the audience, I did my Master's and PhD work on women more so either metabolism, so post perennial metabolism, or, like, exercise metabolism. And then my dissertation stuff was looking a little bit more like menstrual cycle and birth control, effects of things. And so then I continued my training on menopause and my postdoc being a little bit more trained in that area, continuing my research and learning and expertise, kind of across the lifespan. So I don't, definitely don't have, like, you know, this heavy background I had did some pregnancy research in my master's, but I know I always get that from home, and they want that for me. And I was like, that's just not my that's just like, a whole nother specific niche on its own. Like, I can give you general guidance, but like, I'm not like, living and breathing that research like some of my peers are. So I'm not more in, like, the menstrual cycle, birth control cycle, sinking menopause type realm, for context for everyone here, but as I refer to me and my peers have that paper, invisible sports woman, that we published like fall of 2021, and it was like looking at five years of the top five journals in Sport and Exercise Science, and the rate of publications of papers done specifically on women or included women as part of their sample size. And we did this as like a follow up to. To like, essentially this other group did the same thing five years prior. So we just basically sent it, like, a decade of total and essentially found, like, the publication rate and statistics of numbers of female participants, like, didn't get better from those five years later, from that. And it's like, I think I always, I shouldn't write this down, because I always quote this on podcasts, and I butchered the numbers, but I think it's something like only, like six to 9% or something like that of studies were done specifically on like women's questions. So like questions that are unique to women only or females only. And then I want to say, like, roughly 32 or 34% of total participants were female. So then 64% of like participants in studies were male. So that's either male only or mixed sex studies. And so, you know, I do think that for as much frustration there is in the online space right now about wanting more information about women, at least when we think about just like the cycle and birth control, like I think it's coming, I always kind of get frustrated when creators are like, poo pooing and crapping on research, when it's just a long, slow takes forever to get stuff out there process. And I do think we're gonna get a lot better answers and more answers on just like, instead of just saying, like, well, cycle thinking is a waste of time. Well, people like, Well, what do I do? And it's like, I think we're gonna get more specifics of like. I hate to use this, but it is so like, protocols for like, approaching managing symptomology, or improving performance, or approaching these things in a way that, like, helps with, you know, the perception or true effects of, like, PMS, PMDD, menstrual cycle, symptoms, improving that stuff like, I do think that that's going to come or like more information on how to adjust and customize based stuff like person's individual experience. I think we just need more research so we can start it's hard when you It's hard when we don't even have generalizable stuff, to then get into that, that nitty gritty nuance of, like, Okay, well, like this, how you make this apply to you? Because unfortunately, when it comes to hormonal stuff, like, there's a lot of individual variation there, and it's not as simple as, like, mechanical tension causes muscle hypertrophy, and that works for rats and us. Like, it's a little bit more like, you might respond this way, and this might not be true for you kind of thing. And so I think we are, in the next 10 years, going to see a lot more of this come out. It's trendy. I think we're going to see a lot more come out of Europe and Canada, because the US does not fund Sports Science for women. They only care about metabolic diseases and, you know, chronic diseases. So I think, like, you know, that's like Kate, oh my gosh, like Stu Phillips Group in Canada, and then, oh my god, I cannot remember her name, Kirstie Elliott sales group and all their kind of interleague colleagues. There's a group out of Penn State. I think all of them together have been doing a lot of collaboration stuff that's awesome recently. And I think that there's this big push with like, these top people. And there's Abby Smith, Ryan at UNC and her group. And so I just think that there's going to be more coming. I just think it's slow, but I think we're gonna we're getting more of that out there. There's female specific athlete research conferences. I think it's going to really improve. Like, you know, we love to say, like, you know, yeah, women aren't men, but yeah, of course, cycle syncing and the way that tick tock is selling it is kind of bunk. But there's going to be ways that we're going to be able to apply some data that's going to be able to, like, better the health and training of female athletes, I think, more specifically, and that's where it's probably going to be the most impactful, versus Gen pop people. Some of this is like, well, you know, like, it's probably gonna not as important for you at this point in time. So I think we'll see more of that delineation of that. And then when we think of that, like women's health and menopause in general, there's a huge push, and this is definitely more funded and pushed in the in the States as well as elsewhere. But again, the NIH and the funding bodies in the US really favor like diseases more than like they don't care about your luteal phase performance like they care about like, you know, disease risk and all that stuff. And so there's this whole Women's Health Initiative thing that's going on that is funding based out of like the US is like National Institute of Health, and all their funding pushing more specifically for research in menopause and or metabolic health, or health across the lifespan. So I think there's a lot more of that that's going to be coming out as well. I think unfortunately, the generation right now who really wants that stuff, and trust me, I hear it so loudly in my comments. I think you know this current generation of women going through that in their 40s, 50s, 60s, are troopers, but I think a lot of the answers to what they want is, unfortunately, going to benefit like my generation, like I'm my early 30s. Now, I think the next 1020, years, we'll see a lot more stuff that will be more helpful, more specific, helpful things, understanding these little blind spots that we have in the research and data of things, we just like, we know, but we don't know. And so there's a lot more of that, and I think there's a bigger push for that, and there is a whole funding system for that. So it's, again, one of those things where it's like, you know, people want that information now, and they feel like, because it's not there, that they're being let down. But it's just unfortunate because there is so many good researchers doing this work, or that it's slow, like, I'm currently still working remotely on some of the papers for my postdoc work and the clinical trial that I went there and worked on it in person for a year, where I was there in person and then remotely for a year. And now I'm like, still, like, working, but I'm not employed kind of thing six months later, like, it's still the data isn't unblinded, and I don't even know. So that was, like, I that was two. A half years ago that I started working on this project, that they just finished it up, and they had started that, like before, COVID, and of course, that added more things to it, but like these studies and these interventions and these highly funded clinical trials, they just are slow and they take time. Luckily, women are amazing research participants. Even though there's these gaps and disparities, I think that they are just they are so willing to do so much stuff. And these menopausal women were just like, so awesome, and they wanted to just contribute to science for that. But I think we're gonna get more answers, at least for my nation. Field, from what I can see is, like, from metabolic health and or, like, some of the vasomotor symptoms managing that the peripheral artery impacts, as well as hopefully a little more outside my niche, like, I think hopefully we'll see more specifics on, like, medical hormonal replacement therapy, and like, how that can be used when that can be used. Again, I always give the disclaimer, like, that's a little bit outside of my scope, because people may tell them, like, what they should do. And I'm like, You need to go talk to an OB, or just on that one. But I think we're going to see more of that pushing towards that field for optimizing health, and maybe get more answers of, like, why our body composition is changing the way it is and what we can do about it. And I think, like Bill Campbell on social media has been really pushing and coming in that feel and like trying to start seeking those answers a little bit more. I think there's a lot of people are like, hey, like, no one's answering this question. And we see in coaching or social media, people that are very frustrated about, okay, well, I do feel like crap in my menstrual luteal phase, or my perimenopause symptoms are way worse than what this is saying or, and, you know, we see in pregnancy too. We're seeing a lot of advances. My friends are doing great work on this. Like, okay, maybe heavy lifting actually isn't that big of a risk. It's actually probably safe and beneficial, or different, like, you know, different bracing and breathing techniques aren't as Doom as gloom as we've made them out to be. Or there's not actually risk of baby and things like that I see. So I think that just a lot of the stuff that's either been completely unknown or is just getting the biggest target of its information, because the lack of just concrete data at this time will start to come out in the next 510, 15 years. It's just, I think we're at this cusp of both social media demanding these questions and science trying to catch up with it, and science is going to be monumentally slower than the process of research. It's a lot easier for me to read a paper and get it on social media than it is to complete a study, right? So I think we're going to be filling in a lot of those gaps, and I think that there's a lot of women researchers, or honestly, because the demand of online space influencing these questions that people are asking or even inspiring students who go and do masters and dissertations to answer some of these questions themselves. Yeah,
Brianna Battles 27:24
absolutely. Like, in the meantime, I always tell people like, this is, this is where we're just trialing, like we're asking questions, we're experimenting, and sometimes, like, I know, for me, been working within this space for the last over a decade. So much of it was just like self experimentation with my own training, my own body than my own clients, and then saying, This is what I'm seeing. This is what's working Glen, then, yeah, we get more research as time goes on. But like you said, it's a very long process to take what maybe we've suspected or hope but actually have research to back that up, and it's just a long game process of being patient with that. It's going to be interesting to see, especially in the perimenopause and menopause stuff, we're seeing that big area of interest, big push, lots of voices, sometimes lots of contradicting voices, lot of arguing on social media. And I think for so many women that are used to like, hey, it's 2025, we want information. We wanted it yesterday, to get really frustrated with not feeling like they know who to turn to, who to trust what their next right thing is, because they're used to feeling like, well, we should have this information, but we just it's not always clear.
Alyssa Olenick 28:28
I know, and I honestly, I really try to not partake in the arguing, because I just sometimes feel like it's not productive. And I feel like at least people more confused than they are. What sometimes means your posts don't do as well unless you do something slightly inflammatory. But I think what happens with a lot of the the female fit stuff specifically, is because the data isn't there for a lot of things we're looking for. A lot of people are either living and dying by just the data and what it says, and then some people are taking chances on applying things that are kind of on the edge. And sometimes they apply it like when it's still a hypothesis and not actually. And I think that, you know, if there's a little more, more like, in the middleness of like, okay, like, and I try to do this with like, I, you know, a lot of the even the menstrual cycle stuff, I'll be like, these things might help support these symptomologies in this phase because of these mechanisms. But, like, it's not, like, fully conclusive, but it's mostly harmless. Like, taking magnesium in your luteal phase isn't going to put you in the hospital, right, like, but it might help your symptoms. So I can say that that might be beneficial, right? Or taking tart cherry juice because you can't sleep in menopause and struggled recovery, you're at most drinking a glass of juice. You're not going to be experimenting with something that's like, so I try, I think that there's just, like, this delicate balance of, like, we don't have a robust clinical trial on this exact thing, but some data shows that it might be beneficial and it might help you, and it seems to be relatively harmless. And I think that's where some of that disconnect comes with female fit stuff, and people want this to be absolutely true, or if it's not absolutely true, then it's totally bunk, and then everyone fights, and then the consumer's like, Am I doing everything wrong? What am I supposed to do? And I think that's where I try my best, of course, to have that. Nuance of that with people, because it's like, okay, well, like, everyone's situation is different. But also, like, you know, that's where having the skills to read the research and the science is helpful, because you can see all these different themes. And I kind of am very mind Mappy and linking together. Well, like, we know, this happens in these studies, and this happens here. So like, how does it apply here? And then, just like, yeah, working and talking to people and being like, hey, like, this isn't like the most foolproof evidence based thing on the earth, but it might work. So let's try it. Yeah, just
Brianna Battles 30:24
keeping an open mind and be able to have a conversation with people. Like, how can we use our knowledge or expertise, education, the research that we do have to then be able to, like, be a real human and actually coach people, because that's ultimately what people want. They want to know. Like, what is the practical thing that I can do to maybe improve my quality of life, maybe improve my performance,
Alyssa Olenick 30:45
yeah, yeah. And I think that sometimes the this is, I think, a signed communication thing that the very, very formal sciency people, I think, sometimes forget how to talk to people, and then they get frustrated because the people spreading misinformation are who they're listening to, and that's because they're a lot better at talking to the people, right? And so sometimes I feel like I'm downplaying my intelligence from the way that I speak online, which is so funny, because some people are like, You talk too smart, but i I'm willing to use the language of the consumer and what they understand or what they resonate with, or what they're saying. And every once in a while, someone get on me, and they'll be like, that's not the proper this. And I'm like, Yeah, but like, my consumer isn't searching concurrent training, like they're not, or they're not searching like, you know, like hormone adjusted exercise programs, like they're searching cycle syncing, or they're searching hybrid training, or whatever it is. And you can apply that X, Y and Z, or they, you know, I'm of the stance too. I think a lot of people do this in the online space where they say, well, that's not important unless you're doing this, or this isn't the this isn't the most important thing, so don't focus on it. But like, people are still curious about those things. So like, it's our job to explain to them when and why we use zones or when, and why you take creatine or when, or why you do these things. And if you're going to do it, do it this way, not just don't worry about that, that's stupid. And then they're going to go to other people to get that information. So I think it's up to us to like, understand what consumers are looking for and what they want. And sometimes it isn't the most evidence based thing, but we can it's they're coming to us for that information, just shutting them down for wanting it isn't actually helping them, and they're gonna go find it somewhere else. So I think that, yeah, there's just sometimes this science communication disconnect of just not, I think, being willing to, like, participate in the way the online space works to some degrees, and using the language or the trends or the way you have to do those things, and this is just me taking a side ramp, but it's hopefully if other experts or coaches or people are in the space are thinking about it like I think that there's just some little, well intended blind spots that end up kind of just poo pooing on things or turning people away, where you can use it as an opportunity to just teach People and bridge the gap of that nuance and properly educating them while meeting them where they're at. Yeah,
Brianna Battles 32:45
that's absolutely good art to communication and coaching and being able to bridge those gaps between research and the applied aspects of research. So I do want to dive into, like, some more specific topics. So you've talked about cycle thinking, we've seen a pendulum swing of information around men, around the menstrual cycle, especially for female athletes. So what is the trend? And then what is the reality?
Alyssa Olenick 33:08
So there is such a trend on and it's funny when you think about like female athletes versus like regular people, because the the trend of the cycle thinking is it's like, I live in two different worlds when I'm like, in the female athlete place, like the female general health space. So I think that, like one, like compartmentalizing that and understanding that, like a lot of the information out there is coming from wellnessy, woo, woo. We like holistic hormony places. And a lot of those people aren't trained at all in strength and conditioning or exercise science or fitness whatsoever, and then they're just giving exercise prescription based off of like mechanism and hormonal assumption or hypotheses about how things will respond or interact within the body because of like, X, Y and Z, other things that you know, we don't have, I always say like, we don't have like every answer in our research that we're looking for, but we don't have no research like people actually, we Have no research on women, and we're just shooting blind, and science has left the you know, if I had $1 forever real, that's like, women were left out of clinical trials in the 1990s so you can't trust science, but you should trust me. It's like, but we have data and research that we can use, like, even if it's imperfect, it's not like, it's like, no research. There's not a single research study on women that has ever been done. Like, that's how they act. So, you know, there's this idea that cycle syncing is this you need to adjust your training, like, week by week, or based off your hormonal profile, or change like the it goes anywhere from like, slightly adjusting things like is as like rudimentary is, like, take a deload week during your cycle. And that's probably the like, the least terrible information that's out there too. On this week you only do this activity, and this week you want to do this activity, and this week you want to do this activity, and it's like chasing your tail. Chasing Your Tail of what you do. And then in the athlete space, there is this, like athletes reporting like, hey, my symptoms do feel like they impact my performance. They do feel like they're impacting my training. What's interesting is when I go to the conferences that kind of study and report this like it's different from sport to sport, or even athletes to athlete. Like. Isn't even, like, concrete trends there. Like, as much as people are like, it's always this phase, and you're like, well, it's not actually always this phase, because for some women, it's the early menstrual cycle phase. Some people it's ovulation. Some people it is mid luteal. Some It is late luteal. So it's like, well, it's actually not the same for everyone, but people usually do agree that it's impacting them somehow. And I think there's, there's more push for, like, how do we work with this? I know my friend Sam Moore, who's an Abby Smith, Ryan lab, just published a publication on this because she implemented, like, cycle based periodization approaches within college athletes. But it wasn't like, it definitely wasn't the way that people are selling it in the online space. It's like a modulation of volume and intensity across the month, not like,
Brianna Battles 35:39
hey, like, you need bodies here and lift over here, basically, yeah. And
Alyssa Olenick 35:43
so the reality is, you don't need to be changing your exercise routine. And the data like, you know, everyone wants to say, well, the data isn't high quality, and it's not it's like, but if psychos thinking was this robust response, even in the noisiest of data, we'd see a lot more concrete trends than like, some studies show this face. Some studies show that phase a lot of studies show no effect at all. I'm like, Yes, of course, quality, high quality studies, we'll see more. But like we would see there are some really good studies out there that do control for hormones, and they don't see these things that we are proposing. So it's like, we would see more of this come up if it was actually, like, this super robust thing, right? So the reality is, for me, my my take on it is cycle syncing isn't something you need to be doing, but working with your symptoms and your cycle is something that you can be doing. And so it looks a lot like, if you I love just like auto regulation is the easiest thing to use here, because indirectly, if you use auto regulation, whether that's heart rate zones or RPE for cardio or RPE for lifting or ri are, like, you are indirectly modulating intensity and volume by self selecting what you can kind of do that day. And I'm also for like, if you need to increase volume or decrease volume in response to how you're feeling, like, that's okay too. Like, so we have these, like, really preliminary studies that suggest that maybe hypertrophy might be better in the follicular phase, but like, that's messy and not as concrete as people like to sell it out to be. But my take for that is, like, if you feel really good the week of your period and the week after and into ovulation, and you want to push it harder in the gym, like, Okay, push harder. And if you don't feel as good in your luteal phase or late luteal phase, then like, just pull back RPE, or pull back a set, or pull back intensity or weight. And like, you kind of account for that a lot of the time with auto regulation kind of thing. Like on Saturday, I just might, you know, I share this as a story, because it's like, I think people forget that, like you are more than your hormones and your menstrual cycle, like, if you have a bad night's sleep, or you're a parent, I'm sure many of your audience are parents. Like you're gonna have these weeks and times you're sick or you're not recovered or you don't sleep well, I'm like, you want to use these same practical approaches, like, it's not just like your hormones ruling your life, like I, on Saturday, cut a ton of quad volume on my second leg day for the week, because between my running and my lifting volume, my schedule being off from the holidays, and I had two nights of bad sleep. I just wasn't recovering. So I just said, Hey, you know what? I'm just going to cut this volume because I'm not recovering this week, and it's not necessary, and it wasn't based off where I'm at, and my hormone for my cycle was just like, hey, I slept poorly two nights in a row. My quads literally feel like, lead. I'm not recovering from my workouts, and I'm just going to cut this, because it's not going to be a net positive, right? And like, I think these are important skills for coaching in general that we forget. Then when it comes to the menstrual cycle, we're like, we need these specific protocols. And I'm like, we just need really good coaching principles and teaching people how to work with their bodies. And I think for most people, they've learned, for women especially, to ignore their fatigue, or push, push, push, or take no rest. Or they've historically been following horrific training programs that have no periodization, or they're not balanced across the week, or they're all moderate to high intensity all of the time, or they're under loaded lifting that's irregular, mixed with, like, hit moderate class cardio stuff. So, like, you know, it depends on who you're working with, right? So there's this difference of like, okay, let's get women to good exercise training programs that are auto regulated, mixed with, okay, you're working with an athlete, or a self identified athlete, or someone who's more routine and can, like me, predictably track, like I did this weekend, where I was like, okay, my recovery is poor. This isn't normal for me. This is out of the norm. Like, something needs to be adjusted, bumped up, food, pulled back volume, select extra like, that's a skill, right? It was an athlete that I knew I needed to take into account or adjust with that, and I could do that too in any phase of your cycle or pill use or whatever it's doing. And if you track that for three to six months, you might notice trends over time and then learn how to modulate and adjust for that. And then I'm very much so of like, a nutrition focus approach, because we even seen some of these studies coming out now, like, even month to month people's symptoms or performance isn't the same, like two cycles in a row. There's this vendor project paper that was just published. So it's not even like, it's like every month. So it's like, if you feel really bad in your luteal phase one month, phase, one month, you might pull it back. But the next month, if you feel fine, then like, keep on, keeping on, kind of thing. And so I take more of a nutrition first approach. One, being fed and adequately fed is the most important thing for female athletes or regular Gen pop female people, more than any periodized menstrual cycle protocol that you possibly follow. I. And then making sure that you know, you're eating enough protein and carbs and in micronutrients like that is far most the most important thing. Then there's some things that you can do, like, you know, even if the data is kind of mixed on if the luteal phase is actually increasing metabolism, like, if you're extra hungry or not recovering or feeling crappy, like bumping up your food by, like a snack, or a couple, like 100 calories or two to 300 calories is depending, like, it's probably not going to hurt you, right? If you're feeling extra hunger, your recovery is poor. I've had a lot of you know, my followers, who, when I give them the suggestion of, like, bumping up their pre and post exercise or intra workout carbohydrates, but a lot of their symptomology and their issues of their cycle during that session just go away because they bumped up that carbohydrate in response to that, right? Like, it was a Fed state issue, mixed with, you know, we can toy with supplements or, you know, periodizing supplements across the month, but then I'm the stance of, like, well, let's eat moderate to high protein intake the whole month. And like, let's take magnesium and fish oil the whole month. Like, you don't have to only take that in the in the luteal phase, right? Things like that. But there is some suggestions of things that, like that might help with that, and then auto regulate and adjust, or plan your front load or back load your your weeks, or plan your rest days around your worst days of your cycle. And like, it can be as simple as that, or, you know, adjusting to that. And then, you know, we see, then in the whole other world of things, the menopause side of things, you see, I mean, you could sit here all day and talk about every piece of misinformation. But like, I think the biggest thing is that there's like, these menopause specific diets and menopause specific exercise routines. And really what it is is that women didn't follow proper exercise routines their entire life, and now they're in desperate need of strength, hypertrophy, power driven exercise training programs. And they that is menopause specific, but really, like, it's like, that's just like, how athletes are well rounded fitness people have trained their whole lives, or should be training. So it's like, it's just that the importance and urgency and need for that is now more apparent if you neglected that or didn't have that your entire life, so to speak. And then there's the narrative of cardio is making you fat. And I just cardio is never making you fat. That's just like so stupidly mechanistically over applied in so many ways that are just could be unpacked for another day. But again, women in menopause might just need some more high intensity cardio if they can recover from it. Recoverability, especially in perimenopause, is a huge issue for people, so I think this push of like do three hit workouts a week is also not helpful for women who are maybe sedentary or haven't done formal cardio, and they're just being thrown into doing this right off the bat. So like well balanced cardio, or well balanced fitness routines that include plyometrics or power training, heavy strength work, and balanced cardio that includes some intensity is really what I call like the trifecta menopause, so to speak. And then, you know, everyone's obsessing about diets and nutrition and these hacks and this and that, and really, the data just shows that like a well balanced, high quality diet that is reducing the processed foods, reducing the alcohol, removing it, preferably entirely people hate, but that's like the one most consistent piece of advice out there. And then Mediterranean style diet patterns appears to be the best for for menopause, with a lot of things. You know, we're still figuring out the, you know, a lot of people are like, well, your metabolism doesn't actually slow down, but there are some shifts in way, the way you store fat, or you metabolize energy, or you potentially are, like, moving less spontaneously, and then you're expending less. There's a little bit more nuance there to those things, but it might, I think for a lot of people in menopause, what it becomes is just having to be more rigid and tightening up the barrier, or the like, the bowling alley. What do you call those? The it's kind of like you have to put up the bumpers a little bit more, like, you can't just, like, get away with as much as you used to be able to. You have to be a little bit more tight in that, especially if, like, you hadn't been for years. Or there are athletes who go into this period of time and they're like, Oh my God, my body's totally foreign and different. And I just, you know, did another interview recently where I talked about, like, sometimes you have to do less to be able to do more. Like, you might need more recovery, and you might have to divvy up your intensity a little bit differently, like you, so that way you can get that in, that stress and stimulus that you need for those adaptations, or, if you like, especially for, like, the endurance junkies their entire life. Like, okay, well, you're gonna have to give some of that time out for strength and power and plyometric and hypertrophy training, and not only just endurance training. So there's usually, I think, for a lot of women, whether that's menstrual cycle or, I'm sure, even postpartum and pregnancy and all that stuff. And that it's that I think more of the issues come from poor information that leaves women under trained or poorly trained, or underfed or poorly fed that then when you exacerbate it with a hormonal response or shift or change or whatever that is, whether that's the menstrual cycle or pregnancy and birth or menopause, then it's like magnified on that level. And it doesn't work anymore, because you're like crap, like, I have to adjust for these things. But if we follow good training and nutrition principles for a lot of this stuff, it's going to take us, like, 80 to 90% of the way, and that other little last 10 15% is going to be like, fine tune adjustments to individuals, probably hormonal or individual response to those.
Brianna Battles 44:55
Yeah, that's so well said, and I talk about that a lot like, it's funny. I never thought I'd be working. With pregnant and postpartum athletes. But then I started to realize, like, this is a population that is a very common population, not even a special population, a very common population. And it's not that I like love pregnancy and postpartum. It's just you realize what a catalyst season that is for women. That is the first time that they can't necessarily get away with some of the training, nutritional practices that they were able to do maybe in their 20s, ish, how they were training, what they were doing, how they were doing. This the first time that their body is changing and it's supposed to change, and they don't necessarily have full control anymore. So it is such an eye opening season of that auto regulation, of that body awareness, and of being able to change the course of maybe some of your belief systems and your training approaches to then complement what your body needs right now, and not just for right now, but on behalf of your long term athleticism. And then same with postpartum. Now you're adjusting to so many variables that, once again, are outside of your control, how your baby came out, what your pregnancy was like, what your experience was like, and now a whole new human to take care of, where your sleep and your hormones and everything is just kind of out of whack. And once again, it's no longer just about you and what you want to do versus the reality that you're currently in. And then having to figure out, well, what can my training can my training routine look like to now compliment the season of life I'm in, knowing it's not forever, but it is like, what can we do right now within the body that you have, within the circumstances that you're in, to set yourself up for what I constantly refer to as like, this lifetime of athleticism, because it's never Just about pregnancy and postpartum. It's about what you're doing during these seasons, you know, proactively and then even reactively, when needed to then set you up for perimenopause and menopause. Because for a lot of women, they're having babies a little bit later and they're done maybe having their second or third baby, and perimenopause is right around the corner, and they're still trying to recover from the shit show that their body's just been going to for maybe the last decade. So it's pretty wild that, you know, I think we're getting to this point where we're seeing, yeah, I was an athlete my whole life, or I was really active, and I was training this way, eating this way, and now these seasons have kind of blown up our understanding of our bodies and what they need and how they work, and then, most importantly, how to then be really strategic and give it what it needs right now. So then when we get to perimenopause and menopause, we're not going like, holy shit. I I don't even know what to do. I don't know how to train anymore. And I'm confused. Why does my body look like this? Why do I feel like this? I want to look and feel like I used to, instead of being able to, like, recalibrate and figure out what's going to serve you right now. Yeah, I love
Alyssa Olenick 47:45
that for the menopause too, because I think the hardest thing that people don't like when I say this and I'm like, Listen, I'm going to go through it someday too, and have to realize this like you. You can't age backwards like you as much as you try like, it is a shift and change like and just like, I mean, I don't have children, but like postpartum is you are forever postpartum, right? Like, it's not like, it's something that you just go back, yeah, like it is the rest of your life. And so I think, too, is like, so I'm really passionate about this idea of like, the best time to intervene is, like, for with perimenopause, is like, perimenopause, like, if you aren't doing these things before it and setting yourself up with the most physical success, like, the time to intervene. But it's tricky, because you never want people to feel like it's too late or whatever with menopause and then same with so actually, don't really ever express this in the online space. My views on like, pregnancy and exercise and training, like, even though I've obviously, like, not as well trained in that area, like, I'm not ignorant to this area. And I know when I don't talk about I never want people to think like, Oh, you have no. I'm like, well, it's women's health. It's still in my general parameter stuff. But, um, I'm also, you know, really strongly opinionated about, like this, this effect of postpartum pregnancy, and then, like, mostly the postpartum period, and, like this deconditioning period. And so women are going through this now later, typically either their late 20s, but like a lot of people now in their 30s, and that's when you start to have rapid muscle loss and declines in bone density, and on the book end of menopause, and I think it's so bad for us, yeah, and it's like, and then women are losing their glutes and, like, lower body power and strength, which is our specialty, because of all these things, right? We see that all the time, like the mom button. There is some scientific reason why you're losing that stuff. But, you know, I, I never wanted to come across like, I'm like, shaming moms for not being better about protecting their health. But like, you know, there's also an aspect of being, like, informed and educated and like, now there's more push of like your health. The six to 12 months before you conceive really impacts your baby's health, but also like your your pregnancy and your postpartum health. And like, then that postpartum period is when you're potentially going to be losing a lot of muscle and strength and power because you are truly recovering. I don't want people think I'm saying, like, you should snap back to the CrossFit wads three days per part. I'm like, that's not what I'm saying. But I think that these are, this is where I think obviously there's more systemic issues of, like, needing support and for mothers. And like. It's a whole nother conversation, but I think that that is a rapid period of loss of muscle and strength and conditioning and health for women, and then they are going into midlife, where then I think menopause and perimenopause is exacerbated by, like, older kids or aging parents, or you're in the middle of your career. And I think people just, they think it's just my hormones impacting the stuff, and it's compounded by all these other things. But I think, like, man, and so I get more frustrated at the I'm sure you see the exercise advice, like, basically scaring women from doing any intensity or any lifting or any exercise during pregnancy, or, you know, once they're recovered postpartum. Because I'm like, no, like, we need to preserve and maintain or be prepared going into these things as much as we possibly can, right? Like, of course, I'm not saying, like, go exercise the point that you lose your cycle and ovulation so you can't get pregnant. Like, that's not what we're promoting really.
Brianna Battles 50:46
Like, not an all or nothing. I think it's just understanding that, like, good exercise doesn't have to be extreme exercise, even during those seasons, but then a discouraging women from exercising because of pregnancy or because of pelvic health symptoms. Like, there is a solution in here,
Alyssa Olenick 51:01
and that's why I get so frustrated with the the cycle sinky stuff, too, because I'm like, we're de training women 50% of the time. And these women will go have babies, and then they're going to get even more detrained. Then they're going to line up at menopause, and then they're going to be afraid to even do more training, because we scare them out of doing cardio, right? Like, just, like, so insane, and it scares me, because it's like, what women really, really need is good strength and conditioning programs. Like strength and conditioning, like, it's not just one of the other like, because women love, there's the cardio bunny argument and then there's the the weedy lifting argument. And it's like, it's not either or, it's both. That's why I, like, love the the message I have the hybrid training, because it's not even, like, I'm not even, like, I'm not even really focused specifically on women and all of these things. It's like, let me give you the tools to actually build Fitness for Life, because that's what we want, right? Like, we're all set with longevity and health and the perfect and I'm like, a lot of these things are, like, the things that you're afraid to do because someone told you not to do them.
Brianna Battles 51:55
If exercise was a supplement, then, like, everybody would would be taking it, you know? But I think it can be such a hard thing to sell when it is, what's actually going to serve people best across the lifespan is that a really strategic strength and conditioning program versus, I'm going to go to this group fitness class for an hour and, like you were saying earlier, just like a bunch of randomized, really intense exercises, and move on. Well, that was good cardio for the day that won't necessarily get you stronger. It's good to have that versatility, but to compliment that, you also need to have something a little bit more structured, and then, you know, be able to participate. Like, don't be so dogmatic in your fitness too. Like, go train for a half marathon. Go try Jiu Jitsu. Like, there's no like, I think people are like, Well, I only do CrossFit, or I only go to orange theory, or I only do yoga, or I'm just a runner, and they get so married to this one particular form of exercise and their identity attached to that that it's really hard for them to keep an open mind. But ultimately, the open mind towards fitness is what will make them a better athlete across the board, and higher quality of life across that life? Yeah,
Alyssa Olenick 53:02
no. I mean, I think there's there anything that I love from, like, the CrossFit methodology is, like, kind of doing a little bit of everything in your fitness is a good thing. Like, and I always encourage people to, like, yeah, like, run, jump, lift, play, but like, I think people forget too, like, they get so dogmatic in their fitness too, where? Like, they're like, I only do strict body ability lifting and walking, and I'm like, where's the running, where's the running, where's the sprinting, where's the jumping and but also, like, where's the play? Like, go outside, climb up a rock formation, go for a run. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's so I'm such a fan of, like, different ways of moving. It's not that everyone has to have 1000 hobbies. I know people barely even have time for the things that they do, but I think especially, like mothers and parents, it's like, play with you. Your children are playing, and you can play with like, I even took my dog out in snow today. Like, I'm a, you know, I only have a dog, I have a kid. But like, we went and ran snow sprints. And, like, I was, like, how many people are just going running sprints in the snow? Like, I have a dog, so I don't look crazy doing it, but like, that was fun, and I got my heart rate up this morning. And like, that's good for me. And like, it wasn't even formal exercise, but like, I can just go do that, because I've developed a baseline of fitness for life. But like, I can just go and that's awesome, right? Like, that's where we want to be, and it doesn't have to be again, super dogmatic. I think people forget, like, you can just lift two days a week. I usually tell people, like, lift two days a week. Try to hit the exercise guidelines for cardio and feel the rest with whatever else you enjoy, whether it's Pilates or yoga or sports or pickup games or what hiking or whatever like. If you don't have a specific goal, it doesn't need to be super specific. But then if you do, like, it's great. Like, I always tell people too, for health, it's like, Don't worry about your VO two Max and your fitness tracker improve your 5k time. Like, don't worry about, like, your grip strength for longevity, like, get a better deadlift, one rep max. Like, those are the things that actually really move that needle forward, right? No, I
Brianna Battles 54:36
totally agree. It's been, it has been so interesting hearing, like, just the things that come out, versus, like, how we can practically apply it in real life. And you know what I tell a lot of women is, there might be seasons where you are a bit more derailed, and that's okay. You just don't stay derailed. And derailed doesn't have to be this all or nothing. You can just be like, You know what? Like, my heavy lifting is not nearly as heavy as. It used to be, but it's the fact that you're still lifting that can be good enough. Like just because you pull 300 pounds doesn't mean that you're 135 pound deadlift doesn't count. Now. It still counts. It's still going to benefit you, and if you are in a season of less, that is okay, because ultimately it's the fact that you keep participating in general, even if what that participation looks like is a little bit different,
Alyssa Olenick 55:23
yeah. I mean, obviously I think, you know, a lot of people that happens with, you know, babies or menopause or careers or whatever. But, like, I had that when I was I started running Ultras my PhD, but then the last year or and a half or two years of my PhD, I just, I was just doing the bare minimum. I was lifting. I was actually lifting in person with someone who's now coach for me. Because I I myself. I remember someone saying, like, aren't you a coach? Why do you have to train in person? I was like, at that point in time, that was the only way that I was getting to the gym. Was paying Noah, my coach and friend, to coach me in person. Could I have done it myself? Yes, but that was the only thing getting me to the gym in that season of my life. And then I was just doing like I remember, I would write all day for my dissertation, and I used to have this thing where I never ran less than 30 minutes, but I would go on this two mile run when I finished it, because I just sat all day long, and I just for that season, that's what running looked like for me. And like the year before, I had run in my first 100k ultra marathon, and then the next year, I was just squeaking in two mile runs, winning wherever I could, for my own sanity and health. And then I just, you know, ran a bunch of races this past year, like you can come back to those things. But sometimes you just, you have those seasons where I always, like the metaphor for people is like, I think a lot of people get very all or nothing, black or white. And instead of letting the wave, like they let the wave crash them into the bottom of the floor of the ocean, rather than ducking down and getting out of the brute of the wave and riding out underneath it and coming out on the other side. Like sometimes we just need to duck down and adjust and pull back for what we can do. And then, you know, you can come back up and bring that up again. I think people think, well, once I let it go, I'll never be able to get it back again. And I get that way too. Sometimes I just think, you know, oh, I could never do what I did that one. And not you can, you know how to do it, but you just need to sometimes. You know, I think maintenance seasons for people that are athletic are really hard to grasp. I think that's more so that extreme athletic vision versus like the everyday person who dialing that up is the thing that's hard for them to do, and it's about meeting yourself where you're at.
Brianna Battles 57:16
Athletes, it's hard for them to dial down during those seasons. They don't know how. And then it gets into, like, such self sabotaging, nutritional practices, exercise practices, and I end up catching them in that season, because usually, again, it's motherhood that kind of turns their world upside down. And they can't they cannot recalibrate knowing that, like, ultimately, it's not over. Like, athleticism does not end when you become a mom like I am a much better athlete now in my late 30s than I was in my late 20s, by far. But it would be really hard to convince somebody of that who's entering that season feeling like, holy shit, my body's never gonna look the same. I don't like how I'm lifting right now. I don't like how I'm training or how limited I feel. But you're limited because of a lot of different life variables, not because of your physical ability. It's like the life variables that kind of compound, which then influence your output or your capacity, or frankly, even your interest. I have so many different professional athletes that are like, I literally don't want to work out during my pregnancy. I'm so unmotivated. And these are people that love this, but truly, so much gets impacted during these seasons and and I tell people, like, it's okay to have a season of less, knowing that it is not your forever reality. You will you're not going to be washed up. Your Glory Days are not behind you. Like there's still a lot of opportunity, even if it's different
Alyssa Olenick 58:37
right now. Yeah, I know, and I think that's hard. I have a lot of, I mean, I have a lot of parents, and my moms, specifically, in my programs, and a lot of the time it's that hard conversation of like, okay, well, like, your kids are involved in eight different sports and you're training for this race, what if we only did the two day a week lifting program and didn't white knuckle the three or four day a week, and they just, they don't want to let it go, and then I'm like, but you need to make space for your life, and you can do a lot with less. And I think I people don't realize, like, I think is especially if you're an athlete, you're used to training so much all the time, or women tend to overdo stuff, and, like, if you do less but higher quality, you can often get away with getting better results from that, and then still make time to, like, be a human and this might seem hypocritical, because, like, you know, I, you know, I, if you follow me online, I just trained for 100 mile ultra marathon, so I was working out in a 10 to 15 hours a week. And I'll tell you what, that was really hard. And right now, I don't want to work out 10 to 15 hours a week. It is too much. I It's too much. It was a lot by the end of it, right? But that was a season, right? But I had to pull back and recover and repair that. And I even made a post where I was like, Hey, I, like, didn't run a lot for two months after that race because I needed to, like, actually let my brain and body, but, like, mentally, fully recover from that. Like, there's this notion that you have to keep doing the next big thing in order to, like, keep up with your athleticism. And it's like, it's still, it's still there. Don't let go of everything entirely. I mean, I see a lot of people. Who they'll do something, then they just stop running, specifically with racing entirely. And they'll be like, oh, I want to train for those race again, but I haven't ran in a year, and I'm like, Well, you kind of either need to keep sustaining something or build a bigger runway you can get back to where you're at. And I did that too this I just had this big two year comeback thing. But yeah, I think people forget that you can pull back to make space for your life and still get a lot of things you're looking for. Yeah,
Brianna Battles 1:00:24
and like, just cycle, like, cycle your output over time, and then you can still stay involved. I love that. You said that because, like, so many female athletes need that permission where it's like, you don't have to keep, like, almost like, chronically signing up for races. And like, with Jiu Jitsu, I did a lot of competing last year, and this year I'm like, know what? I'm gonna make it like, I'm gonna have a competition season, but I'm not somebody who can compete year round, mentally, the weight cut like, all that's I have too much life going on. I care about way too much other shit to be that hyper focused, and I can't do that and sustain that year round, but for a few month period, sure, I can do that. But I think it's finding that permission when you're an athlete, and as you age as an athlete, where it can be hard to adjust what you do, and more importantly, like how you're going about it, to just compliment the fact that we can be multi passionate people and still athletic and still motivated, still want to compete, still want to train, but need to do it differently at different times throughout the year or seasons of life.
Alyssa Olenick 1:01:23
Yeah, no, and it is, and I say the sentiment that it is hard, but you know, I think the the best lesson for everyone, if you're listening to this and you're hesitant, is like, you kind of just have to see it through to believe it. I think a lot of coaching stuff falls flat on a lot of people, because unless you the stuff that feels scary when it's as advice or coaching, guidance or whatever, is the thing that you kind of just have to lean into to see that it does work, like the eating more, or the training less, or taking a season off, like that. Stuff can feel scary, especially if you're like a white knuckle do it all or type a super passionate, competitive person, right? Like but I think for those clients, I think are some of the most rewarding, though, when they take the chance on listening and trusting that like, if they do less, or take time off like, or they pull back like, not everything will fall apart, or it might even be better. I think that like, you know, you can have the wisest, smartest, best coaching practices in the world, but sometimes you just have to, like, be the person who trusts that advice and guidance and to see it through and know that, like, okay? Because then now I know, I think you know, from doing this for so many years, like, Oh, if I don't lift the three weeks going into my ultra because I'm tapering, guess what, I'll be fine. I'll be back in the gym. But the first few years, it was like, Oh, my God, I'm gonna lose every single gain or muscle or strength or whatever I have. And now I'm like, it's whatever. Okay, I missed a week from another travel trip. Great, cool. The gym will be there. But I you've got to learn those lessons by just like, living them and seeing yourself that your body doesn't just like implode from it right,
Brianna Battles 1:02:51
right now. That's so well said. And I think it's just really helpful to hear, hear from you and your perspective, both from a personal place of being a woman in her 30s who is still very much participating in life as an athlete, but also with the context of your background and education, of what you're seeing in in real time, in the research, and just what we're what we're trying to do differently out there. So thank you so much for sharing all of this. Where can people learn more about you and programs and services that you offer. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely.
Alyssa Olenick 1:03:22
So I hang out the most on Instagram, at Doc List fitness. And I usually or just go to Doc List fitness.com and it has, like, everything you're looking for. I'm dockless Fitness on YouTube. My podcast is the messy middle podcast, and then my training programs are the list method we have, running, lifting, cardio, hybrid on your terms, as are saying, kind of making it work for you and your season you're in, you're in your life, meaning you where you're at, kind of is my my MO with everything that I do. And so mostly, if you just go to Instagram or my website, dockless fitness.com, or dockless fitness, you'll find links to, I'm the most organized page I sort of got on Instagram and social media. I think so if you're looking for anything from me, you'll probably find it pretty easily just in that bio link. So head there and you'll find everything you need that sounds great. Well,
Brianna Battles 1:04:05
thank you so much for sharing your time, your voice, knowledge and experience. It's all very appreciated, and looking forward to seeing what things unfold this year. Yeah,
Alyssa Olenick 1:04:13
thank you so much for having me.
Brianna Battles 1:04:20
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the practice brave podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review and help us spread the work we are doing to improve the overall information and messaging in the fitness industry and beyond. Now, if you are pregnant and you are looking for a trustworthy exercise program to follow, I have you covered. The pregnant athlete training program is a well rounded program for pregnancy with workouts for each week that are appropriate for your changing body. That's 36 weeks of workouts, three to four workouts each week, and tons of guidance on exercise strategy. We also have an at home version of that program if you are postpartum and you're looking for. Exercise Program to follow the eight week postpartum athlete training program would be a really great way to help bridge the gap between rehab and the fitness you actually want to do. From there, we have the practice brave fitness program, which is an ongoing strength conditioning program where you get new workouts each week and have a lot of guidance for myself and my co coach, Heather Osby, this is the only way that I'm really offering ongoing coaching at this point in time. If you have ever considered becoming a certified pregnancy and postpartum athleticism coach, I would love to have you join us. Pregnancy and postpartum athleticism is a self paced online certification course that will up level your coaching skills and help connect the dots between pelvic health and long term athletic performance, especially during pregnancy and postpartum, become who you needed and become who your online and local community needs by becoming a certified pregnancy and postpartum athleticism coach. Thank you again for listening to the practice brave podcast, I appreciate you, and please help me continue spreading this messaging, this information and this work.
MORE ABOUT THE SHOW:
The Practice Brave podcast brings you the relatable, trustworthy and transparent health & fitness information you're looking for when it comes to coaching, being coached and transitioning through the variables of motherhood and womanhood.
You will learn from athletes and experts in the women's health and coaching/performance realm as they share their knowledge and experience on all things Pregnancy & Postpartum Athleticism.
Whether you're a newly pregnant athlete or postpartum athlete, knowing how to adjust your workouts, mental approach and coaching can be confusing.
Each week we'll be tackling questions around adjusting your workouts and mindset, diastasis recti, pelvic health, mental health, identity, and beyond. Through compelling interviews and solo shows, Brianna speaks directly to where you're at because she's been there too!
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